Talk:Scott Baio

Birth year

Past discussion: Talk:Scott_Baio/Archive_1#Birth_year

Some early press might help clear it up. He's quoted as saying he was 13 when shooting Bugsy, but as far as I can tell, it was a relatively quickly made film.

I think 1960 is questionable enough that it requires better sources to stand alone. --Ronz (talk) 22:02, 18 October 2018 (UTC)

• [1]
• [2]

Hmmm. --Ronz (talk) 23:23, 18 October 2018 (UTC)

The 1961 birth date has a Time cite, and thank you for that. We still need a cite for "1960" though, or it can't really stay, per BLP.--2604:2000:1382:E2B2:0:DA07:D6E:614D (talk) 19:35, 24 October 2018 (UTC)

I've found two quotes from him where he explicitly denies 1961. From his own mouth, it seems like it was an IMDb error that stuck around a while, which would explain the stray mentions of it in Time and such. Nohomersryan (talk) 17:36, 2 July 2019 (UTC)

• Hm, looking around it would appear he did chop a year off his age when he was young. Maybe he wised up with age? :p Nohomersryan (talk) 17:44, 2 July 2019 (UTC)

His personal website used to say it was '61 (link above).

I think that's good enough to have both. --Ronz (talk) 20:27, 2 July 2019 (UTC)

The New York Birth Index also supports 1960. Muzilon (talk) 05:16, 24 January 2022 (UTC)

This issue is nonsense because Baio put the dispute to rest, in his own voice, on his official Twitter: ("My birthday is September 22, 1960). Are there any reliable sources unequivocally in Baio's own voice saying that his birth year is 1961? No. If you think I'm wrong, please provide the proof. Even the New York Birth Index confirms it's 1960, as do similar websites which get DOBs from official sources. Right now, the only evidence holding the 1961 argument together is an incorrect IMDb mention years ago (now corrected) that some publications copied and printed, including the current, lone reliable source supporting 1961, Time magazine, in which Mark Halperin injected 1961 after taking it from the other website. Everyone here knows now that he was born in 1960 so why pretend it's not so and continue fighting for the sole purpose of playing devil's advocate? 2605:A000:FFC0:D8:FDF2:3EB5:8751:7A62 (talk) 21:36, 15 March 2022 (UTC)

If Baio has given a correction to his previously statements that he was born in '61, then that might settle this. We don't reject reliable sources because of WP:OR or personal opinions. --Hipal (talk) 01:54, 16 March 2022 (UTC)

You said, "We don't reject reliable sources because of WP:OR or personal opinions." Correct, yet that's precisely what you did. I removed no sources at all. I added sources, which you removed because they counter your point of view. Now, stop avoiding the issue with generalities, contradictions and gaslighting, and provide the proof I asked for. You appear to be the only editor since this issue was first discussed trying to take total control of how this is handled. Are you also Ronz? Do not remove reliable sources from the article. A famous entertainer's statement on his official social media account, in this case Twitter, is indeed a reliable source. In this instance, as reliable as you can get to settle this issue. There was absolutely no legitimate consensus to equate the evidence for 1961 to that of 1960. It is abundantly clear, especially from Baio's own statement, that he was born in 1960. Now, either provide the proof that Baio himself stated he was born in 1961 or admit that you don't have any. Finally, do not remove reliable sources again, including the Newsweek one you tried hiding from readers. A celebrity making a statement on an official social media account or official website is a reliable source with regard to personal data such as date of birth. Do you realize how foolish you sound saying that Baio is not a reliable source for his own date of birth ("He's not reliable for his own birth year")? 2605:A000:FFC0:D8:FDF2:3EB5:8751:7A62 (talk) 02:31, 16 March 2022 (UTC)

If you're not going to bother to read the past, linked, discussion, then I don't see how we can move forward. --Hipal (talk) 03:48, 16 March 2022 (UTC)

I've requested the article be protected once more over this. --Hipal (talk) 04:05, 16 March 2022 (UTC)

I had already read everything. Your characterization of the discussions and evidence is inaccurate and self-serving. You have yet to provide the proof requested and instead continue your intransigence and gaslighting. Stop removing reliable sources in order to hide evidence from readers. Your inappropriate and aggressive editing is very disruptive to this project. What does it say? >>> 2605:A000:FFC0:D8:FDF2:3EB5:8751:7A62 (talk) 11:04, 16 March 2022 (UTC)

As you've read everything, you know this dispute goes back far before I ever edited this article, and has been discussed by many other editors. You have no consensus for your changes, and such consensus is required. --Hipal (talk) 16:53, 16 March 2022 (UTC)

"Your changes"? My "changes" are merely to add reliable sources, which you keep removing, so knock off the nonsense gaslighting. No consensus required for reliable sources. Now, back to the real issue, which you keep pretending doesn't exist. Where's the proof I requested that Baio in his own voice has ever said his birth year is 1961? Stop being a disruptive, instransigent presence on this project and show it if it exists. If it doesn't, be an adult and just admit it. Baio already resolved this absurd dispute: 2605:A000:FFC0:D8:FDF2:3EB5:8751:7A62 (talk) 18:45, 16 March 2022 (UTC)

Not that it matters, since Baio verified his DOB on his Twitter, but in the Career section in this article its says, "When he was 16, Baio was cast as The Fonz's cousin Chachi Arcola on Happy Days," which is a fact that's been published many times. Baio's first episode was the season 5 premiere called "Hollywood: Part 1" ("First appearance of Fonzie's cousin, Chachi Arcola"), which aired on September 13, 1977, nine days before his birthday. Do the math. That would've made him 16 when he was cast, turning 17 the week after that episode aired. If his birth year was 1961, he would've only been 15. 2605:A000:FFC0:D8:FDF2:3EB5:8751:7A62 (talk) 20:44, 16 March 2022 (UTC)

Since you wouldn't, or couldn't, provide the proof I was asking for to support your position, I did it for you because I only want accurate, solid content in the article. Having a reliable source in Baio's own voice saying he was born in 1961 was vital to this dispute. All the other evidence was very weak. Although this AP source is great, it's also very old (20 years), which indicates that for some unknown reason Baio portrayed himself as being a year younger at that time. Subsequently, he stopped doing that and apparently wanted to make that clear with the relatively recent post on his Twitter account that he was born in 1960. He also did that in 2017 when he acknowledged turning 57. 2605:A000:FFC0:D8:FDF2:3EB5:8751:7A62 (talk) 21:29, 16 March 2022 (UTC)

Yet another unequivocal statement from Baio on his official Twitter account that his DOB is September 22, 1960. "I was born Sept 22 19-SIXTY (NOT 1961) the media has always had it wrong." 2605:A000:FFC0:D8:FDF2:3EB5:8751:7A62 (talk) 23:03, 16 March 2022 (UTC)

Don't know if this was already mentioned.

I looked it up in Ancestry.com

DATABASE: New York, New York, U.S., Birth Index, 1910-1965

Name Scott Baio

Birth Date 22 Sep 1960

Birth Place Bronx, New York City, New York, USA

Certificate Number 40494 107.184.67.210 (talk) 15:26, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

Pre-Bugsy work

I've been running across mentions of pre-Bugsy acting. It might be worth searching for early biographies written around his success in Bugsy and Happy Days. --Hipal (talk) 20:16, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

So it doesn't get overlooked: "An Intimate Interview with Scott Baio". 16. Vol. 19, no. 2. 16 Magazines, Inc. August 1977. --Hipal (talk) 17:14, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

https://jenniferschrinel.medium.com/so-who-is-scott-baio-and-why-do-people-not-take-the-time-out-before-they-jude-4a25a1414812 I've been unable to identify the specific month this was published. --Hipal (talk) 23:35, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

May 2022 Birthdatepalooza continuation

I've gone ahead and removed two of the primary sources. I changed the biography.com archive link to the earliest version, where afterwards I noticed it has both dates. This should probably not be treated as reliable then. It would be good to have a very early, reliable source for '60. --Hipal (talk) 15:58, 20 May 2022 (UTC)

Sorry, but no. Trying to sneak in here to unilaterally make these changes 25 days after this matter was settled doesn't work. Stoarm (talk) 03:15, 21 May 2022 (UTC)

Sorry but there's no consensus here, nor would local consensus trump policy (WP:CONLOCAL)

There appears no policy supporting the version you prefer. Ignoring policy does not create consensus. --Hipal (talk) 16:44, 21 May 2022 (UTC)

Any further surreptitious changes to sources related to DOB without consensus will be reverted. Stoarm (talk) 22:16, 21 May 2022 (UTC)

Ignoring policy is not an option. --Hipal (talk) 00:24, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

• What are we bickering about now? The text and footnote supplies the correct birthday and footnotes the existence of past confusion among sources. Let's work on other things! So I randomly perused NYTimes archives from May 1968 a few days ago (54 years ago) and created one or two articles from obituaries. This guy Leigh White, his death seems a bit weird, I don't know if anything was further ever found about it.--Milowent • ^hasspoken 16:59, 23 May 2022 (UTC)

I'm trying to get the article to meet basic BLP standards by removing poor and unreliable sources. --Hipal (talk) 17:17, 23 May 2022 (UTC)

I totally agree, Milowent. Stoarm (talk) 16:59, 24 May 2022 (UTC)

References for birthdate (continued)

The current note ("a") reads, "Baio was born in 1960, though some past sources have said 1961."

Reviewing the references in more detail than the previous discussion, since we are still stuck on them for unclear reasons: --Hipal (talk) 18:22, 24 May 2022 (UTC)

• 1 (Twitter 2014) - Weak keep per BLPABOUTSELF. May be unreliable given he's stated he was born in '60, '61, and '62. --Hipal (talk) 18:22, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
• 2 (Twitter 2010) - Remove per BLPABOUTSELF, OVERKILL. Unreliable for the additional (misleading) opinion it provides beyond #1. Redundant with #1 otherwise. Earlier date makes it worth considering over #1. --Hipal (talk) 18:22, 24 May 2022 (UTC)

  The earlier date does not make up for the SOAP problems. Calling it "misleading" is a rather severe understatement of the problems with it. --Hipal (talk) 16:46, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

• 3 (Scottbaio.com 2017) - Remove per BLPSPS. Used to say "1961". Unclear who is managing/publishing the content. #1 an #2 are superior. --Hipal (talk) 18:22, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
• 4 (Leszczak 2015) - Weak keep this rather than #5. Author is a former radio personality specializing in music trivia. --Hipal (talk) 18:22, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
• 5 (Newsweek 2016) - Weak keep. Poor source per WP:RSP. Author is a sports writer. The article itself seems well-written and well-researched. --Hipal (talk) 18:22, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
• 6 (Biography.com 2017) - Remove. Poor source per WP:RSP. Used to include both '60 and '61. --Hipal (talk) 18:22, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
• 7 (Associated Press 2001) - Keep. High quality publisher. Brief article that quotes Baio agreeing with them about his age. --Hipal (talk) 18:22, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
• 8 (Time 2008) - Remove per OVERKILL. The later publication date makes it worth considering. --Hipal (talk) 18:22, 24 May 2022 (UTC)

  Weak keep. It's probably best to have multiple citations for each date, and the late date from a high-quality reference appears is worth keeping. --Hipal (talk) 16:54, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

  Replace. I think the late date just indicates some sloppy fact checking. I've replaced it with the '82 People profile. --Hipal (talk) 17:09, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

Since we don't have any references that discuss the different dates, there's no need for multiple independent sources, and providing them suggests POV and OR problems. Yes, it would be nice to have some very early and late instances for each date on this talk page to consider. We should probably add the ref for '62 as well, but first we need to get some basic adherence to BLP reference quality policy. --Hipal (talk) 18:56, 24 May 2022 (UTC)

"since we are still stuck on them". "We"? Clearly, the only editor that's "stuck" is you. Read the room... literally. Stoarm (talk) 19:15, 24 May 2022 (UTC)

Edit-warring, and threating to edit-war further is most definitely "stuck" [3].

Following policy is a requirement here. Ignoring policy does not make for consensus. See WP:CON and WP:CONLOCAL. --Hipal (talk) 19:49, 24 May 2022 (UTC)

For one of your past blocks, the admin said it was for "Disruptive editing including battleground attitude & ignoring feedback". Multiple editors urged you to find a mentor to help guide you to productively collaborate with others. Hopefully, you'll consider taking them up on that offer so that you can learn valuable skills that will help you to resolve disputes like this one in a positive and efficient manner. Until then, it's important that you listen to what other editors have been saying to you about this Baio dispute over the past several years. Stoarm (talk) 15:03, 25 May 2022 (UTC)

WP:FOC. This is disruptive. --Hipal (talk) 16:43, 25 May 2022 (UTC)

Quoting from User_talk:Milowent#Update:

• They want to remove four refs, including one of the two Baio tweets from his official account, both which are vital to settling the dispute.
• I will support whatever resolution you feel is best, as long as no more than three refs are removed, both Baio tweets stay, and the article text stays as-is.
  

Let's see what we can do with just removing three refs then, keeping the two tweets:
The worst two, not counting the tweets: (Scottbaio.com 2017) and (Biography.com 2017), The next worse isn't as clear, but I'd say (Newsweek 2016). Is it ok to remove those three? --Hipal (talk) 15:40, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

I'm going ahead with removing them then. --Hipal (talk) 16:06, 23 June 2022 (UTC)

Sorry, but it doesn't work that way. This matter was settled two months ago and no one has stated support for your desired (or any) changes to the current version. So, no, it's not ok. Stoarm (talk) 02:52, 24 June 2022 (UTC)

I'm working from what you agreed to. What's changed? --Hipal (talk) 16:20, 24 June 2022 (UTC)

I agreed to nothing with you, nor did anyone else. So, nothing's changed. This is what happens when you stalk an editor and a discussion on someone else's talk page and then, a month later, summarize it out of context here by cherry-picking a couple lines while leaving out a key premise to one of them, which includes the vital and conditional word "if". Stoarm (talk) 17:36, 24 June 2022 (UTC)

@Milowent: Do you agree to the proposal? --Hipal (talk) 18:28, 24 June 2022 (UTC)

• I think all y'all should be banned from editing this article for 2 years. Do you know how much you could have done otherwise on this project!!??? Do you want "Corrected Scott Baio's Birthdate (allegedly)" on your tombstone? Let someone else wade in here! Today I ran across Arnold Horwitt (which i created), he was cited in over 50 articles about things he had done, yet had no article about himself! Meanwhile Scott Baio did not change his birth year!--Milowent • ^hasspoken 18:51, 24 June 2022 (UTC)

RfC then. --Hipal (talk) 19:31, 24 June 2022 (UTC)

I've gone ahead and reduced the refs to the best two for each.

I've also changed the wording. "Some" is OR. Replacing it with "most" would fit the facts, but would be OR/SYN as well. From what I've seen of the references that we can use, he himself was indicating a year of birth of '61 until around the time he was working on Scott Baio Is 45...and Single. - Hipal (talk) 02:08, 24 September 2022 (UTC)

No discussion, much less consensus. Therefore, reverted. Stoarm (talk) 10:34, 15 October 2022 (UTC)

No discussion! There's a talk page full of discussion. Will you address the policy or not? --Hipal (talk) 16:49, 18 October 2022 (UTC)

My preferred version ([4][5]) changes the note to: "Baio was born in 1960, though earlier sources state 1961."

References

Some early refs (published in the 70s or 80s) would be helpful. Maybe add the NY Birth Index ref? --Hipal (talk) 16:58, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

Yes, "No discussion" after you said, "RfC then" on 6/24/2022. Your changes were unilateral, after an agreement between multiple editors was reached. Again, you unilaterally restored content where there was no consensus (nor discussion, this time). Stoarm (talk) 16:36, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

There's no agreement, just your assertions. Please drop it. --Hipal (talk) 18:36, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

Editors can read this thread and all prior ones over the years to see exactly what was said and done. So, perhaps you should take your own suggestion. Stoarm (talk) 13:23, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

Let's close the book on this birthdate dispute once and for all. Go ahead and make the changes you feel are most appropriate and will not diminish the overall credibility of the article. And to answer your question: yes, I think the NY Birth Index ref should be added if you feel it's appropriate to do so. Stoarm (talk) 13:14, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

Thanks. That will make it simpler for BLPN: asking if a twitter or NY Birth Index ref should be used, and seeing what people think in general. --Hipal (talk) 23:09, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

I've gone ahead and trimmed it back to four independent refs.

For BLPN: Would it be appropriate and useful to 1) Use a tweet from Baio as a ref 2) Use NY Birth Index as a ref 3) Replace or remove one of the current four refs?

I'd like to find a good, early biography. I don't think the teen magazines are appropriate, which most likely means finding a newspaper. I've searched through WP:WIKILIB without luck, and don't have easy access to other news archives. --Hipal (talk) 23:23, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

Searching for new refs to use

• Happier Days: Paramount Television's Classic Sitcoms, 1974-1984 by Marley Brant, 2006, p 48: "The charismatic actor Scott Vincent James Baio was born in Brooklyn, New York, on Septempber 22, 1961, to Italian parents Rose and Mario Baio."

  Found this while looking for earlier refs. There's a paragraph on his early life. I'm not seeing any obvious CIRCULAR problems. --Hipal (talk) 22:58, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

• https://people.com/parents/scott-baio-steals-a-smooch/ October 20, 2009: "The actor, 48..."
• https://people.com/archive/scott-baio-the-man-who-cant-commit-vol-68-no-4/ July 23, 2007: "...warns the actor, 45."
• https://people.com/archive/cover-story-teen-heartthrob-scott-baio-vol-18-no-15/ October 11, 1982: "..says Scott Baio, now 21..."

  Found while digging through People's archives. --Hipal (talk) 16:37, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

Other entertainment magazines to search: The Hollywood Reporter, Us Weekly, Variety --Hipal (talk) 16:49, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

No luck finding anything that's easily and free to search. I'm stumped on how to search for specific publications in archive.org. --Hipal (talk) 17:33, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

The current UPI ref verifies '62. I think it's enough for '62, with or without using 16 or Tiger Beat. --Hipal (talk) 18:08, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

Re "Tiger Beat": There's an interview of his parents. I'm having trouble identifying the exact publication. Maybe "Tiger Beat Star", February, 1978, p38. --Hipal (talk) 17:11, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

Infobox photo

Why is the photo of Baio in the infobox so old and bad? Are there no better ones? Forgive me if this is foolishness, for I am an infant and cannot speak. JGT Webb (talk) 18:16, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

JGT Webb, I agree that the photo is bad. However, for reasons of compliance with copyright law, any photo must be freely licensed, and this is the only freely licensed photo of Baio now on Wikimedia Commons. Cullen328 (talk) 00:29, 9 September 2023 (UTC)

Wedding date

Baio's wedding to Sloan was reported to be in December'07, as the People ref verifies. However, non-disclosures from the television production makes it difficult to determine if their legal marriage date was actually Sep 14, as the Baio's subsequently said. I'm hesitant to use scottbaio.com alone, given the discussions we've already had about it. I'm not finding any refs of similar or better quality than People confirming September. --Hipal (talk) 15:48, 9 September 2023 (UTC)